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Topic:  Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?

Topic:  Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 11:10:07 AM 

 
 
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25 wins last year. 20 losses this year. The most conference losses since the 5-win season I saw Kentucky run us out of the Convo.

I'm angry about this.

In typical message board fashion, I want some accountability.

How does Jim Christian lose the MAC POY in DJ, plus Reggie Keeley, plus Ivo, plus Offutt and still win more games the next year (25) than he did with that group (24)?

Yes, we lost Kellogg and other great seniors last year, but to go from a 20-win team, to a 20-loss team? We had 7 players returning who combined to play more than 200 games last year during a 25-win season!

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 11:31:47 AM 
I don't think you can pinpoint one thing that has led to this season's demise. There were a number of factors that more or less snowballed and then that snowball started rolling downhill.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 11:36:15 AM 
GoCats105 wrote:
I don't think you can pinpoint one thing that has led to this season's demise. There were a number of factors that more or less snowballed and then that snowball started rolling downhill.


+1 I voted for player attitude, but I think it was just the most telling aspect of the problem. All the other factors that you list -- plus others like incompatible playing styles among players -- all contributed to what happened this season.


The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 12:36:02 PM 
OhioStunter wrote:


How does Jim Christian lose the MAC POY in DJ, plus Reggie Keeley, plus Ivo, plus Offutt and still win more games the next year (25) than he did with that group (24)?




Ummmm....they played more games?


2012-13 - 24 wins out of 34 games
2013-14 - 25 wins out of 37 games
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 12:36:43 PM 
Ruck mentioned Ryan Taylor's regression. I blame the seniors for a big part of that. I've heard way too much about their negativity to think it hasn't rubbed off. We need to get them out ASAP.


"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 12:48:42 PM 
JSF wrote:
Ruck mentioned Ryan Taylor's regression. I blame the seniors for a big part of that. I've heard way too much about their negativity to think it hasn't rubbed off. We need to get them out ASAP.



Sadly, I've heard similar things as well. I'd really like to hope that's not the case. But Ryan's regression through the year is definitely a big difference maker. The biggest thing next year has going for it right now is that everyone on the roster except Tony, Wadly, and Setty will be Saul & Co. recruits.


I should add, I'll be curious to hear more confirmed stories about this negativity over the summer/fall. You know it's going to come out at some point.

Last Edited: 3/4/2015 12:49:29 PM by OU_Country

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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 12:53:29 PM 
JSF wrote:
Ruck mentioned Ryan Taylor's regression. I blame the seniors for a big part of that. I've heard way too much about their negativity to think it hasn't rubbed off. We need to get them out ASAP.


I'm sure that hasn't helped the situation, but I'm sure his getting mono had something to do with it too. Even though he probably fully recovered at some point this year, there had to be a setback to playing at less than full strength for so long.
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Felix
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 12:57:07 PM 
It's hard to blame the seniors since they were already screwed over by one or more coaches who pursued their own interests after recruiting them. It's easy to be cynical about the entire ugly process.
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Mark Lembright '85
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 1:17:55 PM 
I vote for: Other-constant coaching turnover. The team needs stability in the worst way.

I hope what's been said about the lack of leadership out of the seniors isn't true.
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 1:26:46 PM 
You need a hobby. Accountability? Give me a break.
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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 1:50:00 PM 
I am most confused by our Saul's in-game personnel management. How in the world do we continue to shoot contested jumpers with more than 20 seconds on the shot clock? How do we continue to allow guard penetration leading to layups or foul shots? How do we continue to make careless passes. This assembly of talent should be capable of more.

I said in the chat last night that I actually am beginning to miss JC's "what are we doing?!!" face. I understand that lecturing a kid is not always the best way to motivate this generation and I understand that Saul saves his yelling for the locker room, but from a spectator standpoint, I knew there were decision-making standards during the games. Come on, Saul. We're shooting contested 3s early in the shot clock with no one around to grab a rebound. Be upset. Pull the kid, send a message, get him back on the court.
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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 2:35:52 PM 
JSF wrote:
We need to get them out ASAP.


Just wait until next week.
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 2:44:13 PM 
I think in most of our MAC games this year, we were outmanned talent and ability wise at three, four and sometimes five positions on the floor. Losing so many recruits due to coaching changes within the past few years has been a big reason for this.

This board vastly overrates our talent IMO.
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 2:51:39 PM 
shabamon wrote:
We're shooting contested 3s early in the shot clock with no one around to grab a rebound. Be upset. Pull the kid, send a message, get him back on the court.


I said this earlier in the year. It bugs me that there is apparently no penalty for not doing what is designed. I'm not a big fan of benching players every time they take a bad shot or make a bad decision but when it become the norm and a coaches directives are ignored something has got to give. And lazy defense always warrants a seat. It appears that Saul's philosophy is to recruit kids that don't need to be reminded on every possession what we are trying to do.

That being said I don't blame any one thing. It's a perfect storm of bad consequences.

Tomorrow, tomorrow, the sun will come out tomorrow.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 3:01:20 PM 
shabamon wrote:
I am most confused by our Saul's in-game personnel management. How in the world do we continue to shoot contested jumpers with more than 20 seconds on the shot clock? How do we continue to allow guard penetration leading to layups or foul shots? How do we continue to make careless passes. This assembly of talent should be capable of more.

I said in the chat last night that I actually am beginning to miss JC's "what are we doing?!!" face. I understand that lecturing a kid is not always the best way to motivate this generation and I understand that Saul saves his yelling for the locker room, but from a spectator standpoint, I knew there were decision-making standards during the games. Come on, Saul. We're shooting contested 3s early in the shot clock with no one around to grab a rebound. Be upset. Pull the kid, send a message, get him back on the court.


I agree with this to an extent. Pulling someone after they make a "we went over this all week in practice" kind of mistake in a game makes sense. Doesn't mean a coach has to scream and yell. But consider how often Saul could be subbing in and out if he did this.




Jeff McKinney wrote:
I think in most of our MAC games this year, we were outmanned talent and ability wise at three, four and sometimes five positions on the floor. Losing so many recruits due to coaching changes within the past few years has been a big reason for this.

This board vastly overrates our talent IMO.



I was guilty of this, though I have to admit, I still believe the starting five of Stevie, Bean, Ryan, Tony, and Mo should be able to get a little more done that they have shown. That said, after them, our best player might be Setty. No slight to Treg, but I'm not sure we want him to be the go-to sixth man.


In terms of accountability, trust me, Saul & Co. are feeling the heat & frustration. I'm sure they're going to be held accountable, but this season isn't a fair measuring stick. The next three seasons should be. Personally, I just want to see better D, and smarter play, and not getting throttled weekly. I can live with a few 15-17 win seasons if we see that.


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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 3:29:17 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
I can live with a few 15-17 win seasons if we see that.




Maybe two but Saul won't last very long here if he puts up a few 15-17 wins seasons.
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Bobcat61
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 3:33:57 PM 
Wear Green AGAIN if you are going to the game

Then watch the Big 10 conference tourney
Watch Wisconsin\
Outside/inside shooters
Long-LONGER arms on defense
Well coached
2 or 3 or 4 passes before the ball is shot
Ball will go inside--out--- will help the 3 point shooter
CHEMISTRY

that will be the Bobcats in 2015-2016 and for many years to come
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stub
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 3:45:09 PM 
my 2 big reasons: team play and point guard.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 3:47:10 PM 
Bobcat61 wrote:
Wear Green AGAIN if you are going to the game

Then watch the Big 10 conference tourney
Watch Wisconsin\
Outside/inside shooters
Long-LONGER arms on defense
Well coached
2 or 3 or 4 passes before the ball is shot
Ball will go inside--out--- will help the 3 point shooter
CHEMISTRY

that will be the Bobcats in 2015-2016 and for many years to come


+1


The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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bobcat695
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 3:58:26 PM 
This season reminds me of typical stories about the last year of a marriage that ends up in divorce. It's not that any one thing alone causes the damage, it's the sum of the parts. There are issues with talent, attitude, consistent effort, basketball IQ, past coaches leaving, new systems, recruits not fulfilling their commitments, new coaches underachieving, and a bunch of other things that cause problems. After a certain point, the parties involved might not say it, but they just start looking for a way out instead of trying to fix all the things that annoy them about the other person.

My guess is that everyone started out hopeful this season would be new and exciting. Early on, a few realized it wasn't going to work, but the rest tried to keep complete failure from setting in. As the season went on, more people gave up hope of turning it around. My hope is that these guys realize that it's not the end of the world. They had a pretty good run in the program and seem to be a group that has represented the university well. The young guys will have an opportunity to decide if they want to fix it this summer, or get out. I don't believe Saul is going to allow a repeat of this year to happen. I'll hit the reset button and be back next year expecting good things. I think the team will, too.

The players, coaches, fans and administration don't feel good about this season. For me, the NIU game at home is the date I adjusted my expectations downward for this season. Others jumped ship emotionally earlier. Still, a few are demanding accountability and answers today. The folks in that group are the same ones that thought it was a good idea for the band to keep playing while the Titanic sank.

Last Edited: 3/4/2015 4:01:16 PM by bobcat695


"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

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perimeterpost
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 6:01:18 PM 
the reason we ended up with this record is because too many players on the team think that if you shoot a deep 3 with more than 25 seconds left on the shot clock it erases the deficit, no matter how large. Its the same reason I am terrible at Madden, all I do is throw bombs on offense and go full blitz on defense. I saw a lot of players who wanted to win really bad but only by winning the fun way where every shots drops and everyone has a good time.

Something else to think about- 3 players transferred from Houston last spring- Fr Jaaron Simmons, Jr. TaShawn Thomas, and Soph Danuel House. Thomas and House were starters, Thomas the leading scorer and rebounder, and both were initially denied release by Houston. Eventually they were granted release with restrictions but House transferred to a school that violated those restrictions without recourse. Simmons was released without delay and without restrictions.

So why did Thomas and House get exemptions from the NCAA to play this season and Simmons get denied? Did Saul really try to get him released this season or not? I'm not saying the NCAA isn't screwed up, and I'm not saying Saul didn't try his hardest to get an exemption, and I'm not even saying that Simmons would have made that much of a difference this year but.... he might have.

At this point I'm less interested in analizing this mess of a season and more interested in figuring out if we're going to be any better next year.


MY STATE. MY TEAM.

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Mark Lembright '85
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 8:41:27 PM 
I agree with Perimeterpost; I don't really care to analyze this season anymore. I'm just looking forward to next year, which in my mind is really Coach Saul's first year. This year's a mulligan.

Last Edited: 3/4/2015 8:43:16 PM by Mark Lembright '85

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 8:46:21 PM 
Mark Lembright '85 wrote:
I agree with Perimeterpost; I don't really care to analyze this season anymore. I'm just looking forward to next year, which in my mind is really Coach Saul's first year. This year's a mulligan.



+1 I'm not a golfer but that's a great analogy.


The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 9:31:12 PM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
I think in most of our MAC games this year, we were outmanned talent and ability wise at three, four and sometimes five positions on the floor. Losing so many recruits due to coaching changes within the past few years has been a big reason for this.

This board vastly overrates our talent IMO.


McKinney nails it.







Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: Accountability: In your opinion, what is the biggest reason for this season's record?
   Posted: 3/4/2015 9:58:17 PM 
Talent is lacking, but so is attitude and effort. Combine those two, and you have a recipe for a historically bad season. We don't have any leaders on this team, and our seniors (by all accounts) have checked out. Not exactly the blueprint for success.
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