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Topic: RE: Why wait to criticize?

Topic: RE: Why wait to criticize?

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SBH
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/25/2015 9:55:06 AM

Agree completely.

OUVan
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Location: Bethesda, MD
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/25/2015 10:00:58 AM

Bobcat1998 wrote:

And as someone who has a PASSION for this program I don't want to SETTLE for having "one bad season in a decade"

Other than throwing temper tantrums what is your solution? Is howling at the moon enough? Your recourse is to not buy the product (as well as pout and stomp your feet). Personally, I'm going to continue to buy the product because it was put together with good intentions and it promises to get better. We are on the right track but ran into the perfect storm of unfortunate circumstances.

JustABobcatFan
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Member Since: 2/5/2015
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/25/2015 10:08:46 AM

I am hurting like everyone else but we need to realize we still have one of the most successful teams in the MAC. Will we be in Cleveland, maybe on Wednesday but highly doubtful there. Sure it's a bad season but I'm excited for next. We don't always say "wait til next year" like some teams. I'm happy for BG fans and may root for them at Cleveland. I'm extremely happy Christian is gone and happy to see Saul here. I wasn't happy when Christian was announced and rejoiced when he left. He was only going to hurt us and here we are. Just lucky it wasn't that long of a sore. Let's just take a breath, pick a team to root for in Cleveland, and see what Simmons, Dartis, and company have in store for us starting November 2015. Go Bobcats!!!!!

giacomo
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Member Since: 11/20/2007
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/25/2015 10:10:51 AM

OUVan, I can't add anything more to your reply except this: a lyric from "Round About Midnight" written by Jon Hendricks.

"every day's going to bring some glad times, every day's going to bring some sad times. But take what you can from the glad times! Don't measure your pleasure in nickels and dimes."

OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/25/2015 10:19:15 AM

OUVan wrote:

. . . If Saul is successful he's going to leave as well and probably well before his 10 year proclamation. . . .

Wanna bet? The only way Saul will leave "well before his 10 year proclamation" is if he turns out to be so bad that he's fired. [Or if he develops serious health problems.] I've personally discussed this with the man, and he does have a much longer-range vision than any coach we've had in decades. JC would have been content to stay much longer, but he really didn't have a personal commitment to stay. Saul is a much, much different animal. And, by the way, I'd give you 10-1 odds on any bet you'd like to make that he won't get fired either -- despite how things look this season.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

OUVan
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/25/2015 10:27:47 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Sure, dinner and a beer(s) in the Athens establishment of the winner's choosing at the first home game the following year. So for you to collect it will be the first home game of the 2025-26 season. For me it will be the first game of the following year after Saul succeeds Bo Ryan. If Saul gets fired the bet is null and void but I'm in agreement that I don't think there is any real danger of that happening.

FearLeon
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Member Since: 3/12/2005
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/25/2015 10:32:11 AM

doubledribble wrote:

1998, Fear Leon, etc etc etc etc. Guys, please back away from the ledge, and don't jump just yet. Let's give our new coach and our program some time to re-load and return to being competitive, let alone dominant , in the MAC. Three coaches in five years is a sure recipe to serve up what we are now seeing. Anyone close to this program who knows much about Division 1 basketball in general, and specifically the MAC, did not enter this season with the unreal expectations shared by many of our regular posters on this site. What we have seen this year should also silence the J.C. haters who did not understand enough about the game to recognize the coaching job that was done here the last two seasons with very average talent to work with.
It will take time for our new staff to get settled into the Convo and to begin rebuilding our program. It is not going to happen over night. Unless there are some dominant junior college studs stashed away someplace in some secret room in the Convo, we all need to make sure that our expectations for next season align with the talent level that we will have on campus for Saul's first full year at Ohio. Re-building this program is a distance run, and not a sprint.
Hopefully our fan base will stay with this program and give this staff the support they will need to get us back to where we all want to be !

I'm not jumping off a ledge. Like I've said...can handle losses....can't handle lack of effort. All you have to do is read quotes from players who were supposed to provide leadership. I can't wait for the new guys to jump in next season and breathe life back into the program. And Christian had average talent? Are you freaking joking? He had an entire Sweet 16 squad fall into his lap year one.

Last Edited: 2/25/2015 10:34:15 AM by FearLeon

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

OU_Country
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Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/25/2015 10:32:41 AM

I give everyone who chose to do so credit for making the drive from Cbus. Let's not assume that not making the 90 mile drive right after work to watch a bad basketball team makes one less of a fan though. Winning & and fun to watch sells tickets and gets butts in the seats. Right now, this group is neither unfortunately. I (and others like me) could have made it by the under 16 in the first half, and frankly, I'm glad I listened from home instead. It made a frustrating day less frustrating to not have to drive back home 85-90 miles afterward. And as a bonus, I got to watch very good basketball (Wisconsin & Maryland) for an hour of my evening before the workday fatigue set in.

Even on the worst night, such as last night, the "Best Fans in The MAC" show up better than every other school in this conference. Buffalo, in a much bigger city, with a lot better team, and more on the line, drew a whopping 3500 last night versus Akron. An improving and surging Red Chicken drew 950, EMU 750. To their credit Ball State fans came out to the tune of 2700+. So in the end, Ohio drew 5000+ paid to the rest of the conference's 7900ish. (I know Toledo didn't play, which makes a difference) But, my point remains, OUr fans still show up or buy tickets better than other teams in the MAC.

Casper71
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Member Since: 12/1/2006
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/25/2015 10:36:03 AM

If you recall, early on in the non con part of the season SP stated after a game something along the lines "the pieces are there, I just need to get them working together". Well, that didn't happen. I don't know if this is on the players or the staff or both. I realize 4 bad years in 25 isn't bad (see my previous post on our record since 1990) but it looks like we may be coming up on two in a row. I think that has only happened once in those 25 years.

I think we can all agree that has just been a frustrating and disappointing season for whatever the reasons.

OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/25/2015 10:44:04 AM

OUVan wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

You are on. I'll mention this to my wife, since I'll be 80 at the beginning of the 2025-26 season, it would be prudent to let her know so that my estate can collect if I should pass on to my reward before the payoff date.

OUVan
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Location: Bethesda, MD
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/25/2015 10:46:33 AM

Casper71 wrote:

I think it's really hard to make any predictions on next year. Losing Mo hurts but we'll have so many new moving parts that it's hard to say what we'll look like. Both the 2005 and 2010 teams relied heavily on Freshman. I'm really, really interested to see Simmons on the court.

OUVan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Bethesda, MD
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/25/2015 10:53:57 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

I'll bring the Depends for both of us. ;)

Pataskala
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/25/2015 11:11:19 AM

If you look at the BG game thread, most of the discussion was about chicken sandwiches. So there's little wonder that few people were interested enough to venture out on a cold night in February.

We're 26 games into the season and if the team hasn't yet figured it out, it's doubtful they will. The one bright spot is that there'll be no more than four more games this season like the last five.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

GoCats105
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Member Since: 1/31/2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Post Count: 6,913

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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/25/2015 11:48:11 AM

JSF wrote:

Bobcat1998 wrote:

JSF wrote:

One bad season in a decade and people can't handle it.

Thank you for making my point clearly for me. I think many of us gave this team time and the benefit of the doubt. This whole topic was started by someone who has PRIDE in this program. By someone who LOVES this program. By someone who wears the green and white proudly in Buckeye country.

Oh, man. I apologize. I had no idea. Hold on. I'm sure I have a ribbon or something around here...

Quote:

And as someone who has a PASSION for this program I don't want to SETTLE for having "one bad season in a decade" and I certainly don't want to settle for a bad season with a lineup of guys who could care less.

And here's where you run off the rails. Nobody's asking you to "settle" for anything. Is there ANYBODY here saying this is OK? Should you be happy? No. I'm not. Nobody here is. I've largely restrained myself from saying what I think publicly because it will do no good. But to say the guys "could care less" (and to quote "Weird Al," "that means you do care- at least a little") is an accusation you can't back up. They're not playing the way you or I would want, but they're still playing. Effort doesn't always mean slapping the floor and diving for loose balls, especially if the effort is misguided. You can't tell me they're not trying out there, especially with all the shots they're launching. They're just not trying the right way.

Quote:

If we were fighting and scrapping every night and losing I wouldn't say a word. I don't call out Bean for poor shot selection or Tony for shooting 3's. I call them all out for effort. They have earned that (or not earned it) depending on how you look at it.

All of them? Ha. This is why I said what I said. We pat ourselves on the back for how great of fans we are. Then, we hit one rough stretch and we can't wait to throw a hissy fit and throw our own players and coaches under the bus. To say all the players on the team aren't giving effort is either ignorant or malicious. Which is it?

+1 simply for the fact that you quoted Weird Al in your rebuttle.

OUVan
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Location: Bethesda, MD
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/25/2015 12:24:24 PM

Pataskala wrote:

The one bright spot is that there'll be no more than four more games this season like the last five.

I like the way you think!

OU_Country
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/25/2015 2:56:19 PM

OUVan wrote:

Casper71 wrote:

Count me in on the "really interested to see Simmons" crowd, for two reasons: 1) I think he's probably better than #22 and #3 for Saul's plans.
2) If he isn't, I'm a bit scared of what next winter will look like.

I'll kind of disagree on Mo, at least offensively, and not because I dislike him. For some reason, I don't think Mo seems to fit into the way Saul does things. I feel like Saul is looking for shooters at every position, and I'm not sure what kind of shooter Mo is. On the other hand, I think Kaminski and Tony fit very well because they're better shooters. Maybe I'm grasping at straws here hoping for a better next year. Time will tell.

Sometime over the summer I said something along the lines of "getting quality minutes from two of Taylor/Laster/Harley will be key". The same applies next year, just throw Dartis/Block/Gollon into the mix. Half of those six will really have to perform for this team to be at a high level.

RSBobcat
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Location: Columbus, OH
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/25/2015 9:45:04 PM

GoCats105 wrote:

Bobcat1998 wrote:

RSBobcat wrote:

Bobcat1998 wrote:

......it's sad that Mo......will make an All-MAC team this year. Neither deserves it.

There's your analysis. Timely and truthful. Feel free to rebut after drinking more Kool-Aid.

Tell me what MAC team Mo would not be a starter on if he was there.

Mo is as talented as anyone we've had at Ohio University so your question is simply answered with "no one." He would start for every team in the MAC. But starting for every team doesn't make him one of the top 15 guys in the league. Talent-wise yes, but I can make a list easily of 15 guys I would take over him if I were starting a team from scratch in this league. That's my point.

I think the key in your first argument was the quote "supposed to be one of the best players ever in the program" or something like that. People built Mo up preseason to be this thing he was never going to be. The expectations were way, way too high. Good player? Yes. Great player? Sometimes. All-timer in program history? He might make 3rd team or honorable mention, and that's a stretch.

Mo on a team w/the the mix of PG's, off G's, wings, and bigs a couple other top MAC teams have this year would put them into sweet 16 territory - PERIOD. Just spend 5, 6, 10, 20 minutes just watching Mo in a game before the year is over. Hardest playing second for second, minute for minute, PLAYER ON THE COURT...........

RS Bobcat

GroverBall
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/25/2015 11:46:14 PM

I really am surprised at how often "sweet 16" is thrown around on here by people. It makes me think that these people don't really follow college basketball, don't understand college basketball (especially the NCAA tournament), and don't appreciate how just how magical was OUr run to get there. The idea that you can just throw some talented MAC players together and "voila - sweet 16!" Is just plain ignorant IMHO. I mean, really?

RSBobcat
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/25/2015 11:58:43 PM

GroverBall wrote:

Yes. That's why it's Sweet. A lot of MAC teams have been just one player away.

RS Bobcat

BobcatPride
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/26/2015 7:56:21 AM

GroverBall wrote:

Maybe I've missed it, but I don't see a lot of posts in this string arguing that Ohio should be a Sweet-16 participant every year. I DO see people saying the Bobcat players are not competing hard game in, game out. You don't have to be a national power in order to bring the effort each night.

OUVan
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/26/2015 10:27:19 AM

RSBobcat wrote:

Agreed. I guess some people think that the fact that he doesn't get the ball often in certain games means that he's not working. He can't pass himself the ball. And I also agree with borna that most of the guys are working hard. We just do a lot of unintelligent things that make it look like they are getting outworked. So much of sports is vision and anticipation. The fact that we don't get many steals, get many 50/50 balls or stop the other team from getting a lot of offensive rebounds is not so much about effort as it is paying attention. But when you see an opponent fly by one of our guys for an offensive rebound it may look like he was too lazy to box him out but chances are he didn't even realize he was coming. It's something I preach to my boys all the time.

OU_Country
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/26/2015 10:33:31 AM

RSBobcat wrote:

GoCats105 wrote:

Bobcat1998 wrote:

RSBobcat wrote:

Bobcat1998 wrote:

......it's sad that Mo......will make an All-MAC team this year. Neither deserves it.

There's your analysis. Timely and truthful. Feel free to rebut after drinking more Kool-Aid.

Tell me what MAC team Mo would not be a starter on if he was there.

Good suggestion about watching just Mo. It'll make a game more interesting to watch the rest of the year.

BobcatPride wrote:

GroverBall wrote:

I think the point made is that sometimes people think it's easy to get to the Sweet 16? Maybe I'm off there.

For some schools, much wealthier basketball schools than any in the MAC, it's seen as a terrible disappointment in the eyes of a fan base not to get there every year. The reality is that it's terribly difficult to do on a consistent basis.

.
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/26/2015 10:53:00 AM

RSBobcat wrote:

GroverBall wrote:

Yes. That's why it's Sweet. A lot of MAC teams have been just one player away.

We're just a Gary Trent and D.J. Cooper away from being a tournament team this year.

bobcatsquared
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/26/2015 4:30:33 PM

OUVan wrote:

RSBobcat wrote:

When I see one BG player and 3 Ohio players (with better position on top of being a 3:1 ratio) in position for a rebound, and the BG player ends up with the ball and the basket, I have to believe there is some lack of effort/mindset/priority on part of the Bobcats.

Perhaps I'm lacking in that much-talked-about (and much self-proclaimed) BBIQ, but I believe two teams don't always bring the same effort and there's been many examples this year of our players not matching the opponent's effort.

Now, combine that with lack of experience and/or talent and you end up with a bottom-of-the-MAC team.

Last Edited: 2/26/2015 4:32:47 PM by bobcatsquared

GroverBall
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Why wait to criticize?

Posted: 2/26/2015 11:52:47 PM

Delete Pending wrote:

RSBobcat wrote:

GroverBall wrote:

Yes. That's why it's Sweet. A lot of MAC teams have been just one player away.

We're just a Gary Trent and D.J. Cooper away from being a tournament team this year.

LOL !!!

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