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This is truely a 2-3 year building job, which is why Saul has been saying since day one he is here for a while. No other school is going to even give him a look until things improve and even then he will need to put together 2-3 years of great results. He is not stupid and that is why he negotiated the kind of payday he did with our AD. Otherwise he probably would have looked else where. Oh by the way, JC's current record stands @ 6-4, just about the opposite of ours. GO BOBCATS I was going to congratulate you earlier for correctly spelling "losing" but am going to need to see more improvement across the board. Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/22/2014 8:35:37 PM  Ted Thompson wrote: Per Chandler's Twitter, he is home for the holidays and not in Hawaii. Any word on why? Back to Top perimeterpost General User Member Since: 7/6/2010 Post Count: 3,165 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/22/2014 9:29:55 PM  71 BOBCAT wrote: Please keep in mind that all of JC's recruits jumped ship, 3 or 4 in total. This is truely a 2-3 year building job, which is why Saul has been saying since day one he is here for a while. No other school is going to even give him a look until things improve and even then he will need to put together 2-3 years of great results. He is not stupid and that is why he negotiated the kind of payday he did with our AD. Otherwise he probably would have looked else where. Oh by the way, JC's current record stands @ 6-4, just about the opposite of ours. GO BOBCATS All of JC's recruits jumped ship, but SP replaced them all. Here's a comparison between the 3 JC recruits that left because of the coaching change, and the 3 players SP replaced them with- (JC) Wiggington, 6'5" G- 21.6 min, 6.9pts, .364%, 3.1reb, 0.6ast. (Buffalo) (SP) Laster, 6'4" G- 23.3 min, 4.4pts, .407%, 2.4reb, 0.6ast (JC) Morillo, 6'6" G- 28.0 min, 10.0pts, .412%, 6.2reb, 1.3ast. (USF) (SP) R Taylor, 6'5" G- 29.0 min, 10.0pts, .500%, 3.2reb, 2.0ast. (JC) Owens, 6'10", F- 7.3 min, 0.4pts, .143%, 1.0reb, 0.3ast. (Tenn) (SP)Thomas, 6'6", F- no stats (Crute stayed but was DOA regardless of coach) You're pointing to his record at BC as if to say we would be better off with him here but clearly our talent level would not be any better than it is today, and that's comparing true freshmen to JUCOs . Would you have said we have a 2-3 yr building project ahead of us if JC was still here? Add in Kiminski and Simmons on the practice squad this year and eligible the next 2-3yrs and our upside is significantly brighter with SP. Our problems today aren't a result of the Christian-Phillips transition, they're a result of the Groce-Christian transition. Groce left Christian 1 sophomore (2 if you count Kadeem Green) and 0 freshmen, we're feeling the downstream effect of that as those are now our senior and junior classes. MY STATE. MY TEAM. Back to Top bobcat2nc General User Member Since: 12/28/2004 Post Count: 584 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/22/2014 9:35:18 PM  OUVan wrote: bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote: That was one of the ugliest 2nd halves I can remember. Ndour automatically gets triple teamed any time he touches the ball because we do not have enough shooters to stretch the floor for him. Tough to watch at times. We've got plenty of shooters but our ball movement is so gradual that it is way too easy to defend them. But your point is valid. There is a split second on nearly every possession where Mo is in good position to receive the ball but we never get it to him. Same goes for Tony. Reminds me a bit of Brandon Hunter days. He was triple teamed and, sometimes, quadruple teamed. (Some teams had an assistant coach shouting out positions so our guards' defenders knew what direction to run to go after Brandon). As mentioned the difference is that we just don't get the ball to Mo for him to shoot or be fouled. Back then our guards just didn't shoot so the defensive play was to multi-team Brandon and foul if necessary. He shot around 200 more foul shots, all time, than the nearest Ohio player. Bottom line is that it IS hard to watch at times. But I will keep watching and rooting. Back to Top Bobcat1998 General User Member Since: 11/7/2012 Post Count: 2,230 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/22/2014 10:02:03 PM  It's amazing how many of you are ready to jump ship. We have played FIVE VERY GOOD MID-MAJOR TEAMS! GW is a tourney team. The other four are very solid. We have had a tougher sked than in year's past. And we're competing with many of those teams with guys that Saul DID NOT recruit. Look at Dakota State and their run last year. There were no guys like Bean or Stevie or even Ndour. There were guys like Tony and Kaminski and Simmons. Ball control, shooters, big guards, rock solid rebounding posts. Saul will have this team playing well come MAC time. Watch, we will lose no more than 4 MAC games. Back to Top Deciduous Forest Cat General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Ohio Post Count: 4,305 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/22/2014 11:01:41 PM  Bobcat1998 wrote: It's amazing how many of you are ready to jump ship. We have played FIVE VERY GOOD MID-MAJOR TEAMS! GW is a tourney team. The other four are very solid. We have had a tougher sked than in year's past. And we're competing with many of those teams with guys that Saul DID NOT recruit. Look at Dakota State and their run last year. There were no guys like Bean or Stevie or even Ndour. There were guys like Tony and Kaminski and Simmons. Ball control, shooters, big guards, rock solid rebounding posts. Saul will have this team playing well come MAC time. Watch, we will lose no more than 4 MAC games. I didn't see anyone say they were ready to jump ship. Right now we're not good. Those are the facts of the case and they are indisputable. It will be a bumpy ride this season. Hope to see steady improvement. Back to Top JSF General User Member Since: 1/29/2005 Location: Houston, TX Post Count: 6,341 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/22/2014 11:17:57 PM  We haven't acquitted ourselves particularly well against the bad teams, either. "Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season. My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8 Back to Top MonroeClassmate General User Member Since: 8/31/2010 Post Count: 2,002 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/23/2014 8:22:32 AM  C Money wrote: OUVan wrote: Our two best coaches since the days of Jim Snyder, Danny Nee and John Groce, both had a losing record and compiled a worse record than their predecessor compiled the year before. We are, however, seeing the fruits of the last regime's failure to seriously address the PG situation. #FireJimChristian Only partially true C, Gross had two classes to recruit at OHIO after his Cooper pick and a third that would have found out he was leaving--no All-MAC type PG's in the bunch. It can be argued that we are seeing the fruits of JG leaving the cupboard bare--weak senior class.(not including Bean--JC's bring) JG played his Coop to perfection and cashed in his chips at the most opportune time. No single Bobcat has ever meant more to his coach! Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/23/2014 8:34:39 AM  MonroeClassmate wrote: It can be argued that we are seeing the fruits of JG leaving the cupboard bare--weak senior class.(not including Bean--JC's bring) JG played his Coop to perfection and cashed in his chips at the most opportune time. No single Bobcat has ever meant more to his coach! Ummm, if JG doesn't leave we have Caris Lavert and Evan Bradds at the very least. And I hardly think the cupboard is bare. I think it's just the talent we have isn't necessarily a great fit for what Saul wants to do. Getting new systems up and running to precision takes time. It took Groce a year and a half. Back to Top bn9 General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 422 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/23/2014 8:41:36 AM  OUVan wrote: I think it's just the talent we have isn't necessarily a great fit for what Saul wants to do. Getting new systems up and running to precision takes time. It took Groce a year and a half. I don't think having two point guards that can't defend or can't pass is a great fit for what any coach wants to do. It is going to be a long season, but I am a believer that we are much better off long term with Saul than JC. Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/23/2014 9:35:53 AM  bn9 wrote: I don't think having two point guards that can't defend or can't pass is a great fit for what any coach wants to do. There's that too. But there are ways to cover your weaknesses as well. We were able to somewhat hide their deficiencies last year. And as bad as they are on defense no one else is stepping up to cover for them. I watched part of the South Florida game the other day and every time one of their players dribble around a pick John Smith or Ivo Baltic was there to force them to change their path. We are getting none of that. And God forbid if we try to take a charge... In short, this year is not a lost cause but, man, there's a lot of work to do. Back to Top OU_Country General User Member Since: 12/6/2005 Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County Post Count: 8,320 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/23/2014 9:39:26 AM  OUVan wrote: Ted Thompson wrote: Per Chandler's Twitter, he is home for the holidays and not in Hawaii. Any word on why? I'm not sure this is the case. Is it possible he's "home" as a result of the Evansville game being so close to home? Back to Top Andrew Ruck General User Member Since: 12/22/2004 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 4,696 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/23/2014 9:58:46 AM  More than anything, we just can't shoot. I'd like to say it is just a slow start, but that may be only partially true...There are not a lot of great shooters on the team. ***R Taylor is the only one with a good mid-range game to date, but even he has not exactly been drilling the 3 pointers with authority and I'm not sure he ever will. ***Bean has been the only worthwhile 3 point shooter, but he is no Nick or Travis or Tommy. He's just solid. ***Maurice & Tony can finish at the rim but their mid-range and outside shooting has been meh at best. A guy like Ndour should not be sitting at .408 FG % at this point in the season. ***Stevie has been dreadful shooting from outside, and though I am sure it will improve (how could it not?) I think it would be best for him to recognize his scoring threat is the dribble drives to the hoop. ***Harley & Laster do not strike me as great shooting threats and are more complimentary pieces to an offense, at this point. Some of this is a result of a poorly run offense that does not create open looks enough. But a lot of it is we just don't have enough shooters. We lost Nick, Travis & J Smith. Guess who are best 3 shooters were last year? In fact, if you take those guys stats out, it turns our 52.7% effective FG % and takes it down to 48.8%. Our effective FG% this year is a dreadful 48.0%. Coach needs to recognize this and transform the offense to maximize the right looks - Bean open from 3, R Taylor mid-range, Tony & Maurice in the paint, Stevie fast break to the hoop. The majority of our attempts should be one of those. Until then we'll just be stuck in the land of ill-advised outside jumpers from not-so-great outside shooters. Andrew Ruck B.B.A. 2003 Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/23/2014 10:00:10 AM  OU_Country wrote: OUVan wrote: Ted Thompson wrote: Per Chandler's Twitter, he is home for the holidays and not in Hawaii. Any word on why? I'm not sure this is the case. Is it possible he's "home" as a result of the Evansville game being so close to home? Even if he is in Hawaii it still doesn't explain why he's seen no action. Yesterday Sam Frayer and Drew Crabtree saw the court but no Thomas. Back to Top OU_Country General User Member Since: 12/6/2005 Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County Post Count: 8,320 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/23/2014 10:13:33 AM  OUVan wrote: OU_Country wrote: OUVan wrote: Ted Thompson wrote: Per Chandler's Twitter, he is home for the holidays and not in Hawaii. Any word on why? I'm not sure this is the case. Is it possible he's "home" as a result of the Evansville game being so close to home? Even if he is in Hawaii it still doesn't explain why he's seen no action. Yesterday Sam Frayer and Drew Crabtree saw the court but no Thomas. I agree. He was brought in to be a veteran player who could provide depth. If he's been at practice, he's got to be able to contribute as well as walk on's. If he has a jump shot, he's ahead of a couple guys that get minutes on our team. Back to Top C Money General User Member Since: 8/28/2010 Post Count: 3,420 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/23/2014 10:38:17 AM  MonroeClassmate wrote: C Money wrote: OUVan wrote: Our two best coaches since the days of Jim Snyder, Danny Nee and John Groce, both had a losing record and compiled a worse record than their predecessor compiled the year before. We are, however, seeing the fruits of the last regime's failure to seriously address the PG situation. #FireJimChristian Only partially true C, Gross had two classes to recruit at OHIO after his Cooper pick and a third that would have found out he was leaving--no All-MAC type PG's in the bunch. It can be argued that we are seeing the fruits of JG leaving the cupboard bare--weak senior class.(not including Bean--JC's bring) JG played his Coop to perfection and cashed in his chips at the most opportune time. No single Bobcat has ever meant more to his coach! I guess the way I look at it is JC knew he had Cooper for one year only, brought in a player in Bean who is really a SG in a PG's body, and didn't have a PG lined up in his 2014 class before he bolted. So JC was willing to roll the dice with 2 senior PGs, neither of whom are all-conference candidates, and nothing in the cupboard after this season. You could MAAAAAAAYBE argue he thought Rio Adams could fill that void, but, yeah..... The only way his strategy makes sense is if the frontcourt players he had lined up would have been dominant enough to mask our PG deficiencies, and I don't think that's the case. (That's an interesting hypothetical though....would the team under JC with those recruits look any better than this team does so far this season? I don't really think so. Losing Nick hurt more than I anticipated.) But I get your point that JG didn't do a whole lot beyond Coop other than Stevie (who, for the record, I love...I can't hate anybody who shows as much love for OUr Fair University as he does...). Coulda woulda shoulda...but we gotta play with what we got. Barring a major meltdown, Saul's got a 1.5-2 year honeymoon to get it put together. Back to Top The Optimist General User Member Since: 3/16/2007 Location: CLE Post Count: 5,552 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/23/2014 10:41:28 AM  Andrew Ruck wrote: Coach needs to recognize this and transform the offense to maximize the right looks - Bean open from 3, R Taylor mid-range, Tony & Maurice in the paint, Stevie fast break to the hoop. The majority of our attempts should be one of those. Until then we'll just be stuck in the land of ill-advised outside jumpers from not-so-great outside shooters. +1000 I've seen crazier things happen. Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/23/2014 10:50:23 AM  Andrew Ruck wrote: Coach needs to recognize this and transform the offense to maximize the right looks - Bean open from 3, R Taylor mid-range, Tony & Maurice in the paint, Stevie fast break to the hoop. The majority of our attempts should be one of those. Until then we'll just be stuck in the land of ill-advised outside jumpers from not-so-great outside shooters. The problem is who facilitates this? Who does the offense flow through to get these guys the shots where they are most comfortable. Unless you have a great penatrator, which we don't, you need at least two guys who can move the ball on the perimeter quickly and effectively. We have one (and a half) and the guys on either side of him typically are where the assist goes to die. Back to Top D.A. General User Member Since: 8/6/2010 Location: Georgetown, ME Post Count: 1,174 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/23/2014 11:28:28 AM  No offense intended to those who are far more learned about running a basketball program than me, but I am not going to blame JG or JC for the lack of the following things that this team is clearly exhibiting: Effort Decision Making Conviction in Making Passes Running an Offensive Scheme Blocking Out Getting Back to Play D I don't care if you have five seven footers on the floor, you can still do those things above. And I don't care if you have had a new coach every year. I don't expect us to win every game. And I am not bailing on the team. But I do expect to see all of the above in every game, and every practice. My comment referencing JC's BC team was based on having I watched them on Sunday. I saw all of the above. I never met JC and I have always viewed him as a curmudgeon on the sidelines, and don't know if he would be the type of guy for whom I would want to play. His guys were doing the things I detailed above. I respected what I saw on the floor. Win or lose, I always expect to see those things detailed above: basic basketball fundamentals. There is never an excuse for not executing those things, regardless of if you are Kentucky or the 350th ranked team in the country. Last Edited: 12/23/2014 11:31:42 AM by D.A. The Few, The Proud, The Bobcats! And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's. "This isn't just another walkover from the MAC." Kirk Herbstreit, another DB, on College Football Gameday Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/23/2014 11:39:17 AM  D.A. wrote: No offense intended to those who are far more learned about running a basketball program than me, but I am not going to blame JG or JC for the lack of the following things that this team is clearly exhibiting: Effort Decision Making Conviction in Making Passes Running an Offensive Scheme Blocking Out Getting Back to Play D I don't care if you have five seven footers on the floor, you can still do those things above. And I don't care if you have had a new coach every year. I don't expect us to win every game. And I am not bailing on the team. But I do expect to see all of the above in every game, and every practice. My comment referencing JC's BC team was based on having I watched them on Sunday. I saw all of the above. I never met JC and I have always viewed him as a curmudgeon on the sidelines, and don't know if he would be the type of guy for whom I would want to play. His guys were doing the things I detailed above. I respected what I saw on the floor. Win or lose, I always expect to see those things detailed above: basic basketball fundamentals. There is never an excuse for not executing those things, regardless of if you are Kentucky or the 350th ranked team in the country. While I agree with much of this I think unfamiliarity with a scheme can make it look like there is a lack of effort. All it takes is a momentary hesitation on offense and/or defense for everything to blow up. Back to Top Andrew Ruck General User Member Since: 12/22/2004 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 4,696 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/23/2014 12:07:01 PM  OUVan wrote: Andrew Ruck wrote: Coach needs to recognize this and transform the offense to maximize the right looks - Bean open from 3, R Taylor mid-range, Tony & Maurice in the paint, Stevie fast break to the hoop. The majority of our attempts should be one of those. Until then we'll just be stuck in the land of ill-advised outside jumpers from not-so-great outside shooters. The problem is who facilitates this? Who does the offense flow through to get these guys the shots where they are most comfortable. Unless you have a great penatrator, which we don't, you need at least two guys who can move the ball on the perimeter quickly and effectively. We have one (and a half) and the guys on either side of him typically are where the assist goes to die. I hear you...Execution is a huge part of it. But I would rather see us turn over the ball in an effort to create a more desired shot than to see more bad outside shots. To my eye, it just doesn't look like they've yet come up with a system catered to them. And maybe that shouldn't be expected at this point with such a mish mash of varying experience and unfamiliar coaches. I just hope the coaches do everything they can to encourage the players to look for more high percentage takes. Andrew Ruck B.B.A. 2003 Back to Top bornacatfan General User Member Since: 8/3/2006 Post Count: 5,706 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/23/2014 8:52:55 PM  JMHO but I think Stevie would have been a much different player under JG and Walker as mentors for the time he was here. Unfortunately, he has been in 3 systems and no specific person who he could look to in growing into the PG spot. Watching him as a young HS player to present he has relied on his skill and talent but not got much direction. DA. You are correct in identifying those traits that make up desire and effort. basic skills in basketball that have to do with being ready every time you walk inside those lines are related to Effort Conviction in Making Passes Blocking Out Getting Back to Play D Those go with a player's BB desire and nature and really go far in seeing how much a player has pride in or cares about the game. I would add meeting a pass and showing desire to make a play to expand the idea of conviction in making AND meeting passes (the old addage the last 3 feet of a pass is on the receiver) assuming I understood your intent in making the statement. If you are alluding to the conviction of teamies always looking for the extra pass, best shot or executing the game plan then this goes down below. Running an Offensive Scheme Getting Back to Play D are things that are related to the system and the players getting familiar and learning the intricacies. There are motivated players that will suck up knowledge and know every play in the scheme based on their BBIQ and willingness to pick it up but that also depends on the rest of the team being bought in and picking it up. Also helps if a team and individual are cerebral and/or motivated by self or team goals. Andrew is right that any gaffe, selfishness or misstep and the wheels come off in hurry. Hope I read your intent and got some thoughts out there. never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer..... The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game Back to Top RSBobcat General User Member Since: 8/22/2010 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 4,401 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/23/2014 10:06:23 PM  bornacatfan wrote: Effort Conviction in Making Passes Those go with a player's BB desire and nature and really go far in seeing how much a player has pride in or cares about the game. I would add meeting a pass and showing desire to make a play to expand the idea of conviction in making AND meeting passes (the old addage the last 3 feet of a pass is on the receiver) YES. And despite the great overall game today - we STILL had issues with these and passing - especially early - but even later in the game. RS Bobcat Back to Top bigtillyoopsupsideurhead General User Member Since: 12/1/2006 Location: Cincinnati Post Count: 1,925 Status: Offline     RE: Official Game 8 Thread: George Washington    Posted: 12/26/2014 10:42:23 AM  http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400750235 GW beats #11 Wichita State and wins the Diamond Head Classic. Back to Top Showing Replies:   51 - 74  of 74 Posts Jump to Page:   < Previous    1 | 2 | 3 View Other 'Ohio Basketball' Topics                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               WHO'S ONLINE There are 206 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com 206 Guests 0 Registered Users There are no other users looking at this page.

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