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Topic: RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Topic: RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

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OhioCatFan
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/7/2014 2:19:27 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

Again, I don't know if he's actually qualified for all of the duties required, but I think he's an alum that would be worth a look. [Emphasis Mine]

I agree with is statement.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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bornacatfan
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/7/2014 2:21:33 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

Again, I don't know if he's actually qualified for all of the duties required, but I think he's an alum that would be worth a look.

Agreed with everything you said.

I think you go in with eyes open. There are enough biz majors here that can tell us what hiring underqualified people with great drive can do....and there are going to be stories of guys who were rainmakers that came in occupied a spot that did not pay off.

I like the guy and I think he would be a welcome addition if he goes in with a good knowledge of the job and expectations. Past that .....there are only 3 spots available and if recruiting/skills developement and game day prep is not done well BA is gonna be upset.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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GoCats105
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/7/2014 2:57:17 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

On the one hand Ric Johnson didn't know who Gary Trent was and he's wearing Trent's jersey #, on the other hand 13K packed the Convo to watch his jersey go up in the raftors. I have no clue if Gary Trent is qualified to be an assistant or not, I just recall him expressing interest in wanting to be one when JC was hired.

I admittedly am not qualified to determine who is and who isn't qualified to be an assistant but I think Trent's bio and life experience would potentially make for an interesting addition to a staff- he's arguably the greatest player in program history and conference history, he was a first round NBA draft pick, he overcame a terrible childhood to live out his hoop dreams, and he did it at Ohio University. That, along with his work as a counselor dealing with at risk youths makes me think that he has capability to effectively communicate to young people in a way that can be compelling.

Again, I don't know if he's actually qualified for all of the duties required, but I think he's an alum that would be worth a look.

I understand what you're getting at here, but just because he played well doesn't mean he can coach it. Or even a step further, evaluate the talent. In fact, I would say the exact opposite. It's rare you'll have a great player become a great coach.

If he can prove me wrong, then so be it. But putting him on the bench just because he's an alum and Ohio's best player of all time is silly. Like you said though, he has to be qualified too.

I think you don't really have to look any further than Ohio's new coach a great example of this fact. He wasn't the best player. And isn't it strange how there are more coaches out there who were guards when they played rather than big men?

Last Edited: 4/7/2014 2:58:01 PM by GoCats105

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/7/2014 3:33:32 PM

Phillips may not have been the "best" player, but he was a starter and captain of a Wisconsin-Parkside team that won a national title in NCAA Division III with Bo Ryan as the coach.

But your point is well taken. Just because a player was great doesn't mean he's going to be a good coach. Some do, like Steve Alford.

On the other hand, you have guys like Clyde Drexler who were horrible coaches.

OUVan
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/7/2014 3:53:34 PM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

I'd take it a step farther and say that the way you played the game doesn't even determine if you'll be a good coach or not. I'll use Sonny Johnson as an example. When the ball hit his hands there was about and 90% chance he was going to take a shot. It made him a valuable commodity off the bench if you needed instant offense but that kind of single-mindedness can limit your team at times on offense. By all accounts however he is an excellent coach.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/7/2014 4:02:24 PM

Sorry to mix sports, but the best example of good player does not equal good coach is Cleve Bryant.

GoCats105
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/7/2014 4:08:09 PM

OUVan wrote:

Jeff McKinney wrote:

That's a perfect example of knowing your role within the aspect of the team. He probably preaches that to his guys.

.
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/7/2014 4:17:32 PM

I just think truly great players are usually so physically gifted that they never had to mull over what it was that actually made them and their team so good. That unthinking genius baked into them that can never be put into words. That means either frustration (Jordan/Magic) or boredom (Bird) as a coach/executive. It's why guys like Jerry West and Lenny Wilkens are marvels to me. Great players who also had awareness of how a team should be built and maintained.

Last Edited: 4/7/2014 4:20:51 PM by .

Doc Bobcat
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/7/2014 4:45:33 PM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Some examples in baseball as well.......see Tony Perez.

bornacatfan
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/7/2014 5:42:23 PM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Steve Alford was GREAT? Hmmmmm.. OK. he was a really good HS and College player.....but I would not list him on my short list of greats for either of those levels.....but I get what you are saying jeff....just busting your chops.

Seems like our last guys from Div 3 Taylor were pretty good. I think this one will be also. His mentor, BO Ryan is a D3 star out of Wilkes University and the list goes on from there.

Got to agree that guards seem to know the game better. They have to see the floor, execute the offense and understand the mechanics. Bigs have a wholly different perspective of the game when you talk to them. The mechanics and their understanding of how the ball gets moved is way different than that of a guard. Their defensive mindset is different and they are less concerned with the fundamentals and mechanics that go into ball handling, dribbling and shooting than almost any guard I have ever met.

Great players often suffer from the delusion that everyone can get to the same level they were......if they wer talented they do not realize that everyone is not that talented.....what was easy for them comes difficult for others. OTOH ...guys like Bird who worked for everything he got and spent countless hours in the gym are oft angered by guys who are not willing to put in the time and don't enjoy the gym time.....Neither are destined to be very ahppy coaching kids that frustrate them.

perimeterpost
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/7/2014 6:37:42 PM

was looking online for some info about Trent's coaching experience and found these comments-

"He also dreams of becoming a coach, either in college or the NBA. Trent participated in the NBA's coaching developmental program, and the league invited him to its symposium to talk to the 2012 rookie class about potential pitfalls that players encounter. Trent believes he has a lot to offer as a coach."

source- http://www.startribune.com/sports/wolves/190784461.html?r...

and this from our own WOUB-

"Another alum that expressed interest in the coaching job in 2012 was three-time MAC Player of the Year Gary Trent. Trent is currently a coach at Uneek Inc. LLC and has served as an AAU coach. Trent also provides one-on-one coaching sessions and is a professional intervention specialist in St. Paul, Minn."

source- http://woub.org/2014/04/04/schaus-ohio-looking-next-head-...

Trent is currently in St. Paul which is about 250 miles away from NDSU campus.

Like I said, I have no idea if he'd be any good or not but am intrigued by the idea of having a person with strong ties to the program and a compelling personal story being involved in some capacity.

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/7/2014 6:45:29 PM

borna, Taylor is NAIA...but the point remains the same...

bornacatfan
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/7/2014 7:11:36 PM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

borna, Taylor is NAIA...but the point remains the same...

You are right with all the really good programs in the neighborhood, St Francis, Indiana Weslyan, Taylor, Anderson U, Huntington all doing well I sometimes get them mixed up. Trophies are trophies.

RSBobcat
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/7/2014 11:11:31 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

perimeterpost wrote:

what about Gary Trent?

-can GT break down film?

GT can break anything he wants to............

RS Bobcat

JSF
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/7/2014 11:29:17 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

Trophies are trophies.

Unless you get them as a kid for participation, in which case it's the crumbling of society.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

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ytownbobcat
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/7/2014 11:43:08 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Sorry to mix sports, but the best example of good player does not equal good coach is Cleve Bryant.

Not to split hairs but I think Cleve was a very good position coach and had much success throughout his career . He obviously was not successful as a head coach.
Jim Cleamons won about 10 games in 3 years as the head coach of Youngstown State Men's BB. But how many rings did he collect sitting next to Phil jackson with the Bulls and Lakers as an assistant ?

OhioCatFan
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/8/2014 12:12:09 AM

ytownbobcat wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Sorry to mix sports, but the best example of good player does not equal good coach is Cleve Bryant.

Good "hair split." I'll agree that he was a good position coach, and even recruiter and player developer. My comment was directed at his head coaching ability. I should have been more specific.

OhioStunter
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/8/2014 12:49:29 AM

Kevin Ollie might be another example of an average player that can coach.

perimeterpost
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/8/2014 12:59:38 AM

Kevin Ollie's entire coaching resume-

2 yrs Asst at alma mater under former head coach.
2 yrs Head Coach at alma mater, team banned from post season 1st year, wins national championship 2nd year.

not bad for a guy who left college in 1995 and had a career in the NBA before returning to his alma mater as an assistant in spite of not having any coaching experience.

Last Edited: 4/8/2014 1:00:59 AM by perimeterpost

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bornacatfan
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/8/2014 8:59:07 AM

perimeterpost wrote:

Obviously a good recruiter
Good motivator
willing to go on the road and spend lots of hours doing grunt work both as an assistant and a HC
Knows X's and O's ...masterful game planner
Breaks down tapes well , interesting to hear him talk about what he saw and what his team had to do to handle strengths of opponents.

I think he answered every one of the attributes mentioned above.

That said, numerous sources point to him not being the first choice of his mentor or folks at the U. He is tenacious.

Happy for him and the program that they have continued on to the next coach. Wonder how many of these kids have Calhoun's fingerprints on them and how many are actually Ollie's. One thing getting there ....a whole nother thing staying. Mike Davis found that out at IU.

As to your point, I think if Trent decides he wants in and meets the criteria...Ohio would be a good place to start. I am pretty sure Shaus can be really unobjective and program oriented in an interview process.

Mark Lembright '85
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/8/2014 9:19:03 AM

bornacatfan wrote:

perimeterpost wrote:

And to take your point about Ollie a little further Bornacatfan, Paul Silas was quoted in the Plain Dealer the other day saying that when he was coach of the CAVS and Ollie was on the team, when Ollie played it was literally like having a coach on the floor, he knew the plays, were players were supposed to be, what plays were to be run when, etc. Apparently Mr. Ollie has coaching in his blood and just has the innate ability to coach. Does Gary Trent? I have no idea but any comparison at the moment between Ollie and Trent is premature.

Casper71
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/8/2014 10:00:41 AM

The NCAA really seems guard oriented. We all love bigggs, me included. But so many of the winners tend to have really good, smart guard play. UCONN is obviously a case in point. Oops, I forgot OUr own OHIO with DJ...Question for me is: Do you think OHIO has the kind of guards necessary to make a MACC or NCAA run?

Last Edited: 4/8/2014 10:04:08 AM by Casper71

OhioCatFan
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/8/2014 10:59:07 AM

I'll say one thing for KO, I think he must have learned his "game face" expression from Bob Pruett of Marshall. Like Pruett, during the game, he had an almost constant scowl on his face. Great coach though. I really like the way his team played last night and the way they kept their pose when UK made a run and cut into the lead. I think they may have been the best defensive team I've seen all year.

bornacatfan
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/8/2014 12:10:59 PM

Casper71 wrote:

That is something I have pondered since JC came here. He scrapped the recruiting profile and went after bigs. We are very long and decently tall for a a MAC squad but the finge is not on par with what JG had been recruiting. Ball handling skills on the edge and the ability to play inside out is going to be a challenge. I agree ....it's a guard oriented tourney. We got bigs. We need guards to sustain forward movement. May be the upside if TO does not stay it opens up a spot for a really good guard.

BobcatSports
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RE: Official Saul Phillips Coaching Staff Thread

Posted: 4/8/2014 12:30:12 PM

We saw during the TOS later years what the lack of suitable PG's did. Fears going off the reservation, Chatman leaving etc., Bert and Ernie left us in the lurch at the point.

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